Clients - from hell?

[Caz]

Just what do you do about "scope creep" ?

a. Heading: "xxxx.org.uk" too big. Is it needed here anyway?
Me: It's only the name and agreed "house" style for the whole site - not just this particular section!


d. Appearance on screen: the left and right panels take up too much space; they leave a rather narrow centre panel,
so that the actual text is drawn out vertically and looks a bit odd.

Me: As the centre panel is designed *not* to have line lengths that are tiring to read on screen - no.

e. Could we dispense with the right panel? The two panels could be combined on the left, so that the contents list of a section comes up as a sub-menu
when clicking on the section

Me: That column only controls the page length and keeps the footer at the bottom. Well OK if you want a complete redesign, the rest of the commissioning editors agree and you are prepared to pay the extra cost.


f. Headings in left panel could be more compact; reduce spacing? or close right up with bullets as in right panel?

Me: OK, about 6 stylesheets control these pages plus their includes, so it will be really easy to do this. Bullets, not more - the content is riddled with them.


h. Weight of headings and sub-headings not logical; eg "Introduction" should be bigger than "Scope".
i. In text, spacing of headings and paragraphs is a little inconsistent, and often over-generous.

Me: All this came over with the Word formatted copy and have not yet been tidied up.

My answers are in think bubbles only and have been phrased more diplomatically for the client.

[Tailslide]

I've had problems in the past so I've tightened up my own proceedures so that it makes things clearer and life easier!  I've got a written agreement which specifies number of pages for instance.  It also has a series of stages such as the Design Stage, the Build Stage etc where the client has to sign off that they're happy at each point.  Somehow it seems easier for the client to understand that if they decide to change the layout after they've signed it off, then they're going to have to pay extra for it.

I've now got this line in my agreement:

Major changes such as extra pages or layout changes requested by the client will fall outside of the agreed specifications and will incur extra costs

[Nicole]

Caz,

I think Tail's solutions sound good. I've been meaning to update my contract for a while and will also look at tightening things up like tail has mentioned.

I think the problem with my contract is that it's worded somewhat technically in areas that I may now take for granted. How is yours? Do you make things clear? How arre they when you visit, talk or email the client? I'm just wondering of course, you've had more clients than me so I'm sure you've learnt to speak in lay terms to them and to write things in a similar way. I think in the end there'll always be clients like this though.

Glad to hear that your responses were only for you to get your thoughts together before responding. Some of them were a bit abrupt.

The thing is though, some of the points they've raised probably don't seem like major issues to them.

Nicole

[Caz]

Ah, but this is not the average client, the "client" is an organisation, one that I have been a member of for many years in my previous non-webby incarnation and my current status as a contractor arose by default when I answered the request for someone to help out with adding colour to their original site back in 2001/2. Up until 2004/5 I did it all on a voluntary basis and then a redesign was wanted (and badly needed) so it was agreed to put it on a paid basis. The redesign was handled formally on the lines mentioned by Tail above and I also have an ongoing maintenance contract with them. The difficulty arises when a new addition is being made to the site and the author of the content is in effect a client representative. The new content is a second edition of a printed work which will also be made available as an ebook for sale when it is complete. He is used to working with printers ((ie. print shops) and that is why he obsesses with formatting detail; I have explained to him over and over again why the screen is not like the printed page, you know like Arial is not the best choice for screen reading. For faithfull print versions pdf's are also available; this is content that will be used for a site search engine that works very well with html/office docs but not with pdf's.

(Before you chime in with other off site search engines like Atomz etc, this has to work behind Spooky Login or it defeats the whole object of protected pages.)

What I am currently doing is trying to work out is a quote for the work - time and cost, plus any constraints that are additional to my current contract conditions. So it's best to get his views, as editor in chief, on board now before I do the formal quote stage to the treasurer who will all sign off the relevant stages - I have established the chain for payment previously.

So it's not a normal small business set up where one person is involved at all stages of the project. I am trying to anticipate problems before we get to the "design by committee" stage.  So having the chief editor on board seems to me to be the best way forward for less aggravation down the line, because there are hundreds of pages to be added from other authors, some written and others to come.

This is a nice little earner which gives a steady income on the maintenance side and that is something that we all look for but don't often come across, so yes Nicole the comments were for readers here, not for the client.

[Fallen Angel]

I am trying to anticipate problems before we get to the "design by committee" stage. 

Never a good thing. That's when you end up with a giraffe isn't it? Or something...

[Nicole]

Caz,

It sounds very similar to the first client I ever had now that you mention it like that. I'd known them for a while, worked there for a while and maintained their site while doing so, left there, took up web design fulltime and then they came to me for a redesign. It's well over 700 pages now, maybe 800 and increasing all the time.

The organisation sounds smaller though, only 8 employees there but each with there own take on things. only three of them directly had reason to contact me with updates or changes to the site. And I continue to do maintenance for them whch probably earns me about $250 or so each quarter year. So it's nice!

The couple of problems that I faced were that for a time, one of the positions that contacted me was job-shared by 2 people and you guessed it, both had different ideas, one was extremely vocal in what she wanted and you guessed it again, she was the one with little idea of how websites work.

But it boiled down to the fact that I was running a business and though while agreeing in principle to deal with 3 different people for updates to the site, it was becomming unruly and I had to do something about it. The solution in this case was to contact the General Manager and explain that it was getting out of hand and that i needed everything, no matter who it came from in the organisation, to come through her in writing (email). This worked great, as she (being General manager) was aware of ?business? issues more than her staff were.

Things have slowly relaxed again though and I?m now accepting content from 3 people again, and one of those only very rarely. But the one I receive the most from is also the editor of their quarterly magazine. She?s a former writer/author and I think she writes book reviews for the weekend papers, but at 70yo+ she struggles (I think) with layout problems in the magazine let alone understanding the website. At first I was scanning each magazine and re-typing it into the site which was costing them a fortune, I explained to both her and the GM that if I could just receive the word documents by email I could update the site in about an hour each time and save them money. But she kept forgetting didn?t she, so now I receive an electronic version of the magagine which I can cut and paste from which is less than idead but still costs them less than it was originally. It?s not really a problem though, just frustrating.

The next problem existed because the General manager is now on leave from the organisation and the stan-in GM was phoning me for changes without sending anything by email. So I had to explain to him the reasons why I really needed a hard copy directive before adding things to the site. It?s a medically related site, the only one of it?s kind in Australia and is therefore a source of information for the media and without any firm directive for site updates I was exposing myself to all sorts of legal action should something be added to the site incorrectly or even just worded corectly.

With your organisation sounding larger than this one, It would make sense if the content came to you also through the General Manager or through by another individual designated to do the same. It?s difficult to put your foot down when you?re friends with the people or if you?re a former colleague but in business it?s necessary and most of those department heads will understand your position, if not the General Manager will. People lower down in organisations just don?t understand business!

In the end your client is the organisation?s General Manager, and if any one of their staff have ideas about the site, they should be directing them to the GM and nobody else as they own the site. Likewise your detailed responses about why something won?t work should be addressed to the General Manager. If they don?t know about web design issues then that?s what they?ve contracted to you for.

It?s alll nice in theory anyway.

Nicole

[Caz]

The idea about one central point for content submission is a good one, which unfortunately doesn't work in this case. This is a separate section of the site and will be in a subweb devoted to it, but only accessible to members. The editor in chief of this section has traditionally worked alone on this in the print world, but it now it does have to folllow the overall site structure and design. (I am firm on this - imagine how the guy would break a CMS  ).

I am not surprised at his initial reactions, so now that I have gone some way in accommodating as much as can be changed without a total redesign and new project costs, I'll continue working out my quote for the job.